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Seane Corn helps people who are committed to social change understand that to dismantle the systems that create oppression, you've got to dismantle the systems that exist within yourself. This world-renowned yoga instructor, activist and author of "Revolution of the Soul" shares how to dismantle those systems and learn where we can each be most of service for a better world.
Transcript:
Seane Corn:
My name is Seane Corn and I am a yoga teacher and I'm the cofounder of Off the Mat, Into the World as well as the author of Revolution of the Soul. In my community, I've been a part of the yoga wellness for communities for many, many years. And over the last 12 years, I've been committed to training leaders to bridge the gap between yoga, transformational work, social justice, and conscious action.
Lauren Schiller:
We're all kind of freaking out right now in trying to figure out what kind of action we can each take to just make it all better. So when I read Seane's book, Revolution of the Soul, it made me feel a little more centered and, like I could go make some change. Rather than the alternative, running through the streets with my hair on fire.
Seane Corn:
And I've been committed myself to raising awareness, raising funds, and to doing whatever I can to, not bring the principles of yoga into activism, but to help people who are committed to social change understand that to dismantle the systems that create oppression, you've got to dismantle the systems that exist within yourself that actually perpetuate and are complicit to that very same separation that you suggest you want changed. And so I wrote this book, really has a toolkit, if you will, to help people approach social change in a way that is more accountable and responsible and to normalize the messy and uncomfortable conversations that are often required when we want to go out and make a better planet. There's a way to do that that doesn't create more harm.
Lauren Schiller:
So today, Seane Corn tells us how to bring the principles of yoga into activism. I'm Lauren Schiller. This is Inflection Point, with stories of how women rise up. We'll be right back.
Lauren Schiller:
I'm back with Seane Corn. Well, it's interesting to think of the connection back to yoga, because I think the general feeling around yoga is like, oh, well that's a practice for myself. That's going to make me feel better. That's why I'm going to start my day so that I feel more centered. But I wouldn't necessarily, until I read this book, connect that back to what does that mean for then to how I go and approach the world or the kind of difference I can make in the world, to be more specific.
Seane Corn:
I think that that's probably the issue with contemporary yoga today. When we think of yoga, we think of those poses, the asana, which is only one part of the pathway. Yoga itself is a philosophy. The very definition of yoga is to come together and make whole, and to recognize that everything is interdependent, is connected. And so if you believe in that philosophy, you have to turn towards where there is separation. Where there are power differentials. Who's getting access to freedom, peace, food, resources, and who's not? And, if in the practice of yoga, one of the main belief systems is that our liberation is bound, that I can't be free unless we're all free. So if I believe that, then my actions have to actually manifest that. And I have to be willing actually to look at the ways in which I'm participating in that separation. And so yoga, that's why it really needs to be within the mainstream. The understanding of yoga needs to be broadened out past the body. That's just the byproduct of the practice. You feel better. Because the truth is, when you do yoga asana, you release the tension. When you release the tension, you're less reactive. When you're less reactive, you are more empathetic, more caring, and more responsible in the choices that you make. When you're tense, you're shut down. And in that tension is when we can create conflict. And so we practice yoga asana, yes to feel better, but to also teach us how to self-regulate so that we can be more in present time when there's issues in the world without contributing to it any further. So the yoga practice itself is much more complex than those physical poses, but the physical poses are a tool that we can use in order to stay resourced and grounded.
Lauren Schiller:
How can we participate in making change in the world?
Seane Corn:
Well, it depends on who that “we” is. I can only speak to, I'm going to speak to the we that I understand. Which is white, privileged, able-bodied, with access to resources. That's who I am. That's more often than not, the community in which I'm communicating to. So I can't just give a formula to a blanket we, because there are some people within that “we” that are trying to feed their kids. They're trying to survive. Their lives are at stake. They live on the margins. They, perhaps it would be dangerous for them to do some of the things that I might suggest. It might be dangerous to them, to their family, to their own survival or sustainability. So I can't speak to that broader we.
But I can speak to people like myself within the communities of yoga and spirituality who talk about, let's go out and change the world. Let's be of service to really unpack what that means. And that's really complex and messy. For years I wanted to help, until I realized that my helping was just one more form of saviorism. That my helping without really understanding colonization, without understanding white supremacy, without understanding power dynamics, that I was just contributing to systems that have already created so many problems. And yet at the same time though, I'm like, "But I want to help. I want to do good." I had to dismantle, within myself, the image that I have of myself as a good person. To that as a whole person with faults and graces.
So, to anyone who's listening, do your work. Really like, do your work. Go inside. Let yourself get informed about what's happening in the world, your own particular cultures. Input into some of the challenges that exist and what needs to change within your own attitude and behaviors that might be contributing to it. So much that I talk about is understanding the mind-body connection. And this goes on throughout the whole of the book. And this is really important for anyone who's listening. We are informed by our trauma. We are informed by our history, by our traditions, by our ancestors, by our culture. So we hold in our bodies, belief systems that live deep within our tissues.
So like if I'm out in the world and there's conflict and chaos, and I get afraid, the rational part of my brain is going to shut down. The reactive part of my brain gets alerted. In that moment, I'm no longer in the present time. My nervous system will revert back to the fears of my high school, the fears of my family, the fears of my history. So, I have to recognize that that's just a reality. I can't not be racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic. I can't not be ageist or ableist, or carry certain biases and discriminatory and stereotypical attitudes, because I'm not enlightened first of all. And because that information is so embodied, that if I'm afraid or tired, odds are that's going to get excavated and cause harm. It might be subtle, and yet impactful. I'm not alone in this. Anyone who looks like me. Anyone who has that same kind of background, we all embody this.
So my suggestion, we need to normalize these conversations. We need to own it. And instead of getting defensive when we make mistakes, recognize that we can't change what we won't see. And if we're really committed to social change, the best gift of allyship that we can give to the world is owning our contribution to its pain and its suffering. That's the first step in. And so, do your yoga practice. Go to therapy. Read books. Get white fragility. Get Skill in Action by Michelle Cassandra Johnson. There are so many resources to look at right now that would be so helpful. And don't be afraid to make mistakes. But recognize that intention doesn't always equal impact, and that we have to take responsibility for the impact that we cause that does continue to hurt others. And instead of freezing in shame or guilt because we messed up, just acknowledge it, own it, move into it and commit, like from your soul, to wanting to be a part of this change. But it means being a part of the transformational change from within.
Lauren Schiller:
My guest is Seane Corn, author of Revolution of the Soul. Coming up, Seane tells us how to figure out where we can be most effective in our activism.
Lauren Schiller:
And we're back with Seane Corn. One of the things that is in your book that's explicitly called out as the stop, look and listen approach. Is that how you would summarize what you were just talking about? Or is that a different, something else that we should be thinking about?
Seane Corn:
Stop, look and listen, I don't personally break it down in that way. But in theory, yes, I would say it's in the pause. Like when you're doing a yoga pose, you're taught to get into a pose. You breath. You pause and bear witness to what's coming up. Your mind's all over the place. Normally, "I'm too old, I'm too heavy, I'm too skinny, I'm too weak." There's all these voices that are trying to sabotage the experience or the other part of the spectrum like, "Look at me, I'm amazing." And so we witness the ego in action. We don't react to it, but we bear witness because what we experience in that pause, is what we experience everywhere. The mat is just a mirror to how we approach life. And so I would say, you go into the pause. Breathe. Pay attention. And make a new choice.
Lauren Schiller:
You reference your old therapist Mona a lot throughout the book. And one of the things that you write that she used to say is that, "Your pain is your purpose." Can you speak to that?
Seane Corn:
Sure. And again, this can't be a generalized statement. More often than not, this can be true, but depending on how someone carries their trauma and how far along they are in managing, dealing or understanding their trauma, this might be relevant for someone else could be actually re-traumatizing. My experience is, the very place that brought you to your knees, the very place that got you to the mat or to therapy or into the program where you sought help, support, understanding, is the very place in which you will be most skilled to be able to be of service.
Seane Corn:Alcoholics, drug addicts, people who have dealt with domestic violence, people who've lost a child. God forbid. There's a level of experience of wisdom that is only gained through walking that very individualized, very isolated path where you go up against your own deep shadows of fear, of grief, of rage, anger, disappointment, and have to fight within yourself to make meaning, even in the incomprehensible. When everything is so bleak, and yet you find the resource within yourself to find grace. Not in spite of the experience, but because of it.
Who better than a soul who has walked that path to stand in the presence of someone else who embodies a similar depth of pain or shame, and be able to hold space with empathy. Which is a shared experience, rather than sympathy or pity, which is hierarchal and it creates, again, more separation. It's an imbalance of power. Those are the people in my experience who have been the most effective in their activism. The most skilled at finding sustainability and care. And who are able to, in a way that's incredibly nonjudgmental, bring others into the fold, who often feel the most rejected or lost.
And so Mona, who I do reference in the book, says, "Your pain is your purpose." And it's something that I do believe and I try to support people in empowering the stories that they have within themselves, that at one time brought them the most shame, to reframe them and to find the grace, to find the God, the find the love, and then to be in service to that for others. That's what that means.
Lauren Schiller:
It feels like right now there's so much coming at us. And you know, again, I say the “us” now, the complete new thinking about what “us” means. But there is a lot going on in the world right now that feels like it's trying to push women backwards. Trying to push the progress that we've made for equality backwards. And it feels like the impulses to just ... time is of the essence. With all of your wisdom in mind, how do we try and make the change that we want to see right now without losing too much time?
Seane Corn:
What I can say is that, for the time is now for all of us to wake up and do what needs to be done in order to create a world that is fair and free and just an equal and safe and peace-filled and loving for all beings everywhere, we all have work to do. And we can no longer rely on our national, or even global leadership, to continue to make choices on our behalf. That we actually have to step into levels of leadership and to hold our administration accountable for the choices that they are making. And we can only do that if we are proactive. If we are engaged. If we are educated. If we're willing to see the bigger picture and not allow ourselves to get overwhelmed or fatigued by the rhetoric that is continually coming at us. I believe the fatigue that exists in the world today is strategic. And it's politically strategic. Through the media is strategic, to keep us disempowered, to keep us tired, to keep us feeling inadequate. To keep us feeling as if we somehow aren't able to make these shifts, because it's too far gone.
Right now our culture is in trauma. And that trauma is being excavated through the words that are being used in the world today, especially in our nation. And although that is scary and that is terrifying, it's also really positive. Because like I said earlier, you can't change it until you can see it. That trauma's always been there. But for many of us, especially again, white women of privilege, there's a lot of that trauma I haven't had to see because it doesn't affect me directly. Now that it is in my face, in our face, we cannot, should not turn away from it. Because again, like I said, otherwise we are the problem. And so we have to recognize that we have to build our stamina. We have to find community. We have to find tools of sustainability. And it really depends on where someone's at.
Obviously if someone's right now raising a bunch of small kids, it's probably not a really good idea to perhaps get on the frontline and risk getting arrested. That might not be sustainable for them. So you have to know, like right now in your life, what can you do in order to be of service? Do you have money? Can you support someone who can be on the front frontline? Can you pay for the lawyers that might be necessary to be able to change the policies that exist? Can you run for local office? There are so many ways in which we can be in service.
But I do still feel the most important thing that we can do is accountability. Is to really look inward and see what we are doing each and every day that's creating these divisions. Take a good hard look at that, and then get really practical about what our skills are, what our talents are and what we're being called up to at this time. But what we can't do is allow the fatigue to overwhelm us. Otherwise they've won. It's purposeful. And yet at the same time, self-care is critically important, especially for people who are on the frontline, who are listening to this, who do live on the margins. Their self-care is probably paramount to the work that they're going to do in the world, because they're already in such trauma. But that means someone like myself needs to double down, so that someone else doesn't have to.
So there are so many things that we can do, but apathy is not one of them. And not caring is only representative of the lack of care that we have for ourselves. So, the more we can love our journey, the more we can appreciate the gift that it is to be a part of this world, and to recognize that we get to do this work. We get to have access to tools for healing and transformation and change. So how dare we not go deep, get raw, get real, be authentic. Tear away all the veils of illusions that cover us and keep us separate from each other, and go in and create change from the inside out when we can. And we should. And we must, because lives depend upon it.
So, my advice is just breathe. Pause. Check in with your feelings. Do the inner work. And then act as if lives depend on it, because they do. Act as if your own liberation depends on it, because it does.
Lauren Schiller:
Is there anything else that you would want to say before I let you go?
Seane Corn:
There's something very important to recognize, that there's no separation between the mind and the body and that our bodies remember everything. It remembers the grief of our grandmothers. It remembers the loss of our mothers. It remembers the heartbreak of every woman who has come before us. And we carry that inside our own bodies and it's very much influencing our perspective and the way in which we experience the world and how the world sees us. And that it's time to honor what our bodies have been holding onto, but also to be willing to break the cycles for our daughters and for our sons going forward, that we need to learn from this trauma and transform our fear into faith. Shift our judgment into compassion and our resistance and to surrender. And open our hearts to the love that we as women are, have always been, and will continue to be. And that what we have that guides us as women is our intuition.
God is not something, our spirituality is not something you seek. It's something you awaken to. It's already within you. And I define spirituality as truth and love. That's it. It's who we are. But trauma, fear, socialization, all of that block that light. Our work is to reframe our narratives and develop our self-confidence. Because the thing that blocks our intuition is low self-esteem. Build the self-esteem, and you will trust your inner guidance. You might not always like where it takes you, but you will know that's exactly where you're supposed to be. And you will breathe and surrender to it, knowing that that is the gift of being, and the challenge of being, and that if you can tolerate the discomfort, what's on the other side of it is liberation.
Lauren Schiller:
That was Seane Corn, author of Revolution of the Soul. We'll put a link to Seane's book on our website at inflectionpointradio.org. I'm Lauren Schiller. This is Inflection Point and this is how women rise up.