podcast
Chasing Life
Is there a science to being happy? Does our brain chemistry, or even our genetics, determine how we feel about our lives? Can we learn to become even happier? While happiness may look different for everyone, and can at times feel impossible to achieve, we know it’s an emotion that can be crucial to both your physical and mental health. So in this season of Chasing Life, Dr. Sanjay Gupta is setting out to better understand happiness and what the science tells us about the best ways to achieve it.
Making the Most of the Bodies We Have
Chasing Life
Jun 27, 2023
It’s no secret that our bodies change as we age. We can see it in decreased flexibility and endurance, and older folks can become more susceptible to injuries due to falls. However, experts say there are ways to overcome those challenges and unlock our body’s full potential. In today’s episode, Dr. Sanjay Gupta talks with former long-distance swimmer Diana Nyad nearly 10 years after her record-breaking swim from Havana to Key West at the age of 64. Then, a strength and conditioning coach will tell Sanjay why a focus on jogging may not be the optimal workout for aging bodies. He’ll also share some alternative exercises that people of all ages can try.
Episode Transcript
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:00:00
Okay. I am going to go for a run. It is a beautiful day. Slightly cloudy, 74 degrees.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:00:12
That's me outside of my house last month, as I was getting ready to start one of my favorite exercises.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:00:18
Just putting on my shoes here.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:00:20
I've been running for a long time. I love it. It makes me feel like I have some control on my life. And yes, it makes me feel like I'm doing something good for my body. My love for running is not diminished as I've gotten older. In fact, I started the tradition many years ago. You know, while I get checked out by my doctors, I also wanted to check in on myself in my own personal way. I wanted to keep track of how my body was holding up over the years. So -
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:00:48
I run a mile every year on my birthday. My typical run is 4 to 6 miles, but I run one mile, same route every year on my birthday. I've been doing that for the last 15 years, roughly, and I am proud to say that I certainly have not gotten any slower, but in fact may have gotten a little bit faster.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:01:14
People measure age in all kinds of ways. Most of us start with the number of years. But as I've started to discover on this season of the podcast, that doesn't really tell the whole story.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:01:26
The way that I look at it is by checking in on myself. How am I doing? If I can run a little bit faster this year than the year before. I feel like I'm doing something, something great. All right, here we go. My pace, just in case you're curious. And this is good for me, not as good for other people. Is about 7 minutes, 15 seconds a mile. But now I'm going to shut up, settle in and just run. Okay. Just finished up. I see here about four miles, 29 minutes. So does that. 7 minutes, 15 seconds. Just. Hey I'm not getting any younger But I'm maybe not getting that much older either.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:02:49
Talking to my own parents in our last episode really did shift my perspective on what getting older can look like. They seem to be quite literally living their best lives and they're in their late seventies and early eighties. They're enjoying their free time. They have relatively few health issues. And honestly, it was surprising. I mean, even if you have a positive attitude when it comes to aging, I guess there's no denying that our bodies do go through some changes. But I kept hearing it over and over again. Aging is not linear. It's not that another year equals another year of decline. Instead, we have these bursts of aging, and even they don't necessarily slow us down or get in the way of living life to the fullest. So on today's episode, you're in for a treat. I'm going to have a conversation with one of the people I admire the most. Someone who truly embodies the phrase Age is just a number. She is the person I conjure up in my mind when things are tough, when I have to dig deep.
Diana Nyad
00:03:52
I get those thousand burpees done twice a week. So who cares? Nobody. I just do it for me because I like being in that kind of shape.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:04:02
Nearly ten years ago, Diana Nyad did what everyone thought was impossible. She swam from Cuba to Florida at the age of 64, 110 miles days and days without stopping. Now she's going to tell us what her seventies look like. Spoiler alert, she hasn't slowed down much. Plus, a strength and conditioning coach is going to tell me why my long runs could actually be doing more harm than good for my body, especially as I get older. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent. And this is Chasing Life.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:04:44
I want to take you back to September 2nd, 2013.
Anderson Cooper
00:04:49
Diana Nyad made history today, becoming the first person to swim from Cuba to Florida without a shark cage.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:04:55
You might remember this story. For 53 hours, marathon swimmer Diana Nyad battled scorching sun and freezing nights, brutal jellyfish stings and the threat of sharks, all of it as she swam more than 110 miles from Havana, Cuba, to Key West, Florida. Her accomplishment captured the world's attention. I covered it extensively for CNN following Diana every step of the way.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:05:21
Just a remarkable feat. One of the doctors that we were talking to described this as a race against her own body.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:05:27
Her journey to that moment of triumph was anything but straightforward.
Anderson Cooper
00:05:31
This was her fifth attempt at the age of 64. The odds were certainly against her. In her first four tries, she was attacked by jellyfish, suffered an asthma attack, got stuck in a lightning storm.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:05:41
Nyad first attempted the swim in 1978 at the age of 29. Back then, she didn't even make it halfway. Then she actually stepped away from marathon swimming altogether. In fact, she stopped swimming for 30 years. But there is a funny thing about dreams. Even if they dim, they never disappear. And the goal of completing that swim for Diana was always there in the back of her mind. So more than three decades later, she's now in her late fifties. Nyad got back in the water to try again. Now, her second attempt didn't go much better than the first one.
Diana Nyad
00:06:21
I just can't...I can barely make an hour right now.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:06:24
She tried twice more and twice more. She did not succeed. But here's the thing. As her body was aging, her grit was growing. And finally, on that September day in 2013, Diana Nyad finally made it.
Diana Nyad
00:06:41
We should never, ever give up.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:06:46
And again, I just want to underline this. Diana was 64 years old at the time. Think about that. In fact, four of her five attempts came after she turned 60.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:07:01
I won't get up because I can't. Hey, how are you? Did you just come down for this? Y.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:07:06
Yes, I did.
Diana Nyad
00:07:07
Life in the fast lane.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:07:09
Just hours after Diana emerged from the water. Face and lips all swollen. I sat down with her for an interview. As you listen to this. Remember, you are hearing from a woman who just finished swimming without stopping 110 miles, more than 53 hours through that scorching heat and complete darkness.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:07:28
This is your fifth attempt. How are you physically, you know, now?
Diana Nyad
00:07:32
Slower.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:07:35
It's an incredible task. And I'll share with you, you know, my mom, I mean, she's one of your biggest fans, Ronnie, right? Oh, right. She was e-mailing me all day today and my kids. But obviously, I think for people who are in their sixties, they look at you and they say, I can do anything. Is that a message?
Diana Nyad
00:07:54
Oh, absolutely. I don't wake up gay or even female or 64. I just wake up, like get me at another day, you know? So it's not vanity, but it's more like pride of fitness and use. I think that I'm just the youngest, 64 you ever lived in. I go by a store window sometimes and catch my eyes on the mirror that. 'Oh, no you're you're right on 64.'
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:08:27
So now, nearly ten years later, after that amazing swim, I sat down with Diana again.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:08:34
Do you feel that way about yourself at 73? Are you the youngest 73 year old?
Diana Nyad
00:08:39
You know, I, I, I do. I think I would sort of now a little little more humble as I get older, Sanjay, I would leave off in the world.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:08:49
No you said who ever lived? You said, who ever lived
Diana Nyad
00:08:51
Who ever lived? Yeah, Not just in the world today, but who ever lived. Yeah, I'm going to come off that a little bit and just say that I'm 73 and I feel pretty damn good.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:09:03
We've kept in touch since her historic swim, but we have not sat down for a conversation like this in a long time. And now that I am also ten years older, closer to 60 myself, I wanted to find out how she approached the training and preparation for such a grueling swim when she was in her sixties.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:09:22
How much did your body change? Could you get a sense of how much your body had changed between over those 30 years, roughly?
Diana Nyad
00:09:29
Yeah, I think clearly, because, you know, as an athlete, you have you have measurements. You know, even if they're not empirical measurements, you have your own feelings of your body. And truthfully. And I would say that today we're now sitting here ten years. I did that swim at age 64. I'll be 74 in a month or two. And. I think that the one thing that was clearly lesser when I was in my sixties, in my twenties was speed, but all the rest of it. We can start with the physical actual power of the shoulders. Re re ability to recuperate after a very difficult like a long 16 hour swim in very rough seas. I recuperated better in my sixties than I did in my twenties. Much better now and yeah, much better. And the mind I know for me it had to do with gratitude and appreciation.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:10:25
One thing I remember about you as well, like those times when you were when you were doing these long swims, just simply you would be create music, for example, or you'd say you'd sing songs. And I think if I if I remember correctly, me and Bobby McGee 2000 times was 8 hours and 45 minutes. And I right.
Diana Nyad
00:10:49
1000 times one 9 hours and 45 minutes and.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:10:52
Just you'd sing it and count it and then do it again and then.
Diana Nyad
00:10:55
Yeah, yeah, I'm out there and you know, I take my own version. It really is Janis Joplin's voice in my ears. In this sport, you're not allowed to wear headphones. I would take Janis Joplin's Bobby McGee, and I know that song very well from the first note to the last. But in order to get it to a thousand verses, I curtailed it somewhat. I took a couple of stanzas out. So I'd be, you know, left arm, starting with the third flight in Baton Rouge, waiting for a train, feeling about as faded as my jeans woah.
Janis Joplin
00:11:30
Bobby phoned a diesel dam just before it rained.
Diana Nyad
00:11:35
I was in it. I was. I was here and I was like, I could be dancing if I could.
Janis Joplin
00:11:41
I pulled my harpoon.
Diana Nyad
00:11:42
I'm hearing Janis Joplin's voice. I'm in the rhythm and I'm feeling every word, even a thousand times into it, you know, right to the end. Bobby McGee. Boom That was 622. Let's go. "Busted flat in Baton Rouge." So, yeah, that got me through a lot of hours.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:12:08
Beyond the mental strength, it must have taken the stay focused on that swim stroke after stroke. What I was especially struck by was what Diana said about recuperating faster in her sixties than she did in her twenties. In fact, it echoed something my parents said in the last episode of the podcast. Remember, now they're in their late seventies, early eighties, but they told me they don't really have many aches and pains. They are not constantly stiff and sore. And that really flies in the face of what I think many of us anticipate about getting older, that we are doomed to a life lived in slow motion. Now every person's situation is different for sure. But Diana also said it doesn't have to be that way.
Diana Nyad
00:12:50
You know, for instance, I was at a a gathering, a talk. And, you know, we had a little Q&A afterwards. And one woman stands up the microphone and she says, you know, Diana, I'm exactly your age and you know how it is at our age. You get up and you're you're just stiff, your knees and your shoulders. And I said, you know, with all due respect, you have to speak for yourself. Don't go around saying all people our age are feeling this. I feel no stiffness whatsoever. I wake up in the morning and I found out a bed loose and limber and ready to go. And I do think that at the bottom of that, besides mental attitude and genetics, I think the bottom is just movement. If you're just up and you're active, you decide. You live in a house with a second floor and you decide, Oh, you know, I forgot, I forgot, I got to get up, but I'm going to wait. I don't want to walk upstairs and then have to do it again later. I'll wait until I need three things from upstairs. No, just go upstairs and come back downstairs. Get out and walk and get your newspaper. Get to know your neighborhood. Go walk through your coffee. You know, just if you keep it all moving. Chances are it's going to all stay a little bit more limber. And I have taken I build a cold plunge in my house outside, and I keep it at 38 degrees. So just like those football players or in the ice tubs and, you know, we look through history, you know, soldiers have used ice, you know, to recuperate in inflammation and stiffness to recover from all that. When I get in that cold plunge and the longest I ever stayed is six, 6 minutes, when I get in for two, three, four, five, 6 minutes, when I get out, every little bit of stiffness of the ankles, the knees, the hips, the shoulders, the neck, it's gone.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:14:37
There has been a lot of interest in cold plunges lately. While they aren't for everyone and they can cause a sudden increase in heart rate and blood pressure, proponents say they can also stimulate your immune system, reduce inflammation and force fluid through your lymph nodes, decreasing swelling and puffiness. But more studies, obviously, are still needed.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:14:56
You obviously are moving a lot. You talked about these cold plunges, but if you look at your overall fitness routine now compared to, let's say before 63, before 64, when you did the swim before you were 64, how is your fitness routine changed over the last decade?
Diana Nyad
00:15:13
You know, I like a lot of people. I rotate into things. And now that I'm through with the Cuba swim, of course I'm not training like that. That takes your entire day, your entire life. So I can't do that. And I do swim and I do play tennis. But Sanjay, also, I'm I'm still in that that kind of extreme endurance thing. And I don't care anybody knows about it. I go in my garage two days a week. I work out every day, but two days a week, usually Monday and Thursday, I go to my garage and I get ready. I'm hydrated. I like get up for it. Like it's a you know, like it's a big deal, almost race. And I do a thousand burpees now. I don't do the pushup. I'm not going to do a thousand, you know, with, with the pushup and I do a thousand and every hundred I stop for about 30 seconds. You just walk around, drink a little bit and I'm starting to sweat. By the end, I'm trembling. But that thousand takes me 2 hours and 50 minutes approximately each time. And that workout is important to me. If I'm in a hotel room and traveling, I save the time, bored. I don't go out to dinner. I get those thousand burpees done twice a week. So who cares? Nobody. I just do it for me because I like being in that kind of shape.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:16:25
Is there advice that you would give to people who are getting into their maybe into their sixties or seventies? You're not scared of aging, are you?
Diana Nyad
00:16:33
Yeah, I'm not. I mean, you know, what I'm scared of is regrets. I don't want to get to the last breaths and feel like there was just. Of course, it's always short. All of us, you know, I would say virtually all of us, when we reach the last breath, we say we wish there was more time. And we could have done more, helped more people, gone more places, etc.. So, you know, that's just a big broad sort of. Be in view of it. But I think that what what is really crucial besides movement as we get older, our goals, you know, it's it's sort of like when people look to retirement and fair enough, if someone's worked since the day they got out of college or graduate school and they've worked until they you know, they don't work anymore 66 or 70 or 74, whatever it is, they feel like they deserve just doing nothing. Just go and look at the sunset and walk your dogs on the beach and, you know, just just make it up moment by moment during the day. But I personally think that the the the human condition is to is to I guess we'll get back to the world we used in the very beginning is to seek your potential. So you may be older. And running a marathon is not your thing. But what if you took a look and said, you know, the Chicago marathons in October, I've been walking almost ten miles a day. Could I walk 26.2 miles? Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants? I'm going to finish way behind almost all the field. But wouldn't that be a kick in the pants and give me something to wake up for every day, along with going to the sunrise and walking your dog? But I'm just trying to say that I think that it's part of it's part of human nature to have goals. And I think it keeps you younger, keeps you motivated, keeps your system excited.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:18:25
I think that is such a valuable takeaway. Life is short, but that doesn't mean it can't be filled with so many rich experiences. Diana makes this point about having the courage to fail. You're never going to discover your full potential if you don't put yourself out there and just try something new. Even if you fail at first, it can unlock something in you that you didn't even know was there. I think that's exactly what Diana has done throughout her life. She has had the courage to fail, and she did fail multiple times before she accomplished what many thought was impossible. You know, over the years, I've often thought to myself, someone should make a movie about her life. Well, it turns out they are. In fact, it's due out later this year. Annette Bening plays Diana and Jodie Foster will play. Bonnie stole her best friend and swim team partner. Having a movie made about your life is a real wow moment for anyone, even someone as amazing as Diana.
Diana Nyad
00:19:25
That's the best word. That's the most articulate word about it all Sanjay - wow. And, you know, they're calling the movie Nyad. And so I could just I could just close my eyes and go to sleep after this thing comes out. It's just. It's just. It is. It's. It's honestly, it's almost beyond belief.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:19:41
Well, I'm lucky to know you. I just. I take great pride, and I, you know, I talk about you all the time and Diana Nyad and 'you know her?' Oh, yeah. No, I know her. I think we might even. She might even call me a friend. I'm not sure, you know, but.
Diana Nyad
00:19:55
You can be sure.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:19:56
Okay.
Diana Nyad
00:19:57
You can be sure. You are my good friend, Sanjay.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:20:04
Now, like most of us, are not doing a thousand burpees twice a week like Diana. And remember again, she's 73. But you also don't have to be an elite athlete to feel good about your body at any age. Maybe you just lift weights from time to time. You go for a bike ride, just walk around the neighborhood. And as you heard at the start of the episode, I myself like a good run. But also as we get older, should our fitness routines change as well?
Paul Holbrook
00:20:32
It's my belief that endurance training does more harm than good when it comes to aging.
Paul Holbrook
00:20:41
An exercise exper is going to set me straight right after the break.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:20:56
Now back to Chasing Life.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:21:02
If you're comfortable answering how old you are and how old do you feel?
Paul Holbrook
00:21:08
I'm 60. And. Physically, literally, I feel. 28 is 29.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:21:24
Wow. Is that right?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:21:27
That's Paul Holbrook. He's a certified strength and conditioning coach. He's also the founder of Age Performance, a Salt Lake City based gym that caters specifically to older bodies. Paul says fitness and exercise has been a passion of his ever since he was in high school.
Paul Holbrook
00:21:43
I went for a run one morning to kind of get in shape for, I think it was for football coming up in in the summertime. And after my run, I finished and I, I felt so good. I literally said to myself, I will do this the rest of my life.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:22:00
But it wasn't until he was a student at the University of Utah doing some research on strength training for older adults, that this connection between exercise and aging really came into focus for him.
Paul Holbrook
00:22:11
At the same time, I went to visit my uncle in a extended care facility, and as I was walking out, I just had this thought. I thought, what would happen if you did really aggressive strength training with these older adults in this extended care facility? I thought it either kill them or make them better. And it was just a thought.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:22:35
Then in 1994, the findings from a major study were published in the New England Journal of Medicine. The experiment looked like this. Doctor Maria Federman of Tufts University took one very elderly, very frail Boston area nursing home residents and did something that really hadn't been done before. She brought about half of them to the gym and put them through a workout program and a tough one at that. For ten weeks, they were subjected to a regular routine of high intensity, knee and hip exercises. At the end of the trial. The researchers compared results in areas like muscle strength, walking speed and stair climbing ability to the group who hadn't done the exercises. And what they found was improvements across the board. Only among those who did the high intensity workouts. Paul became so intrigued by the results he felt he had to get in on it.
Paul Holbrook
00:23:27
And so I called up and asked if I could do my internship there, and they said, Sure. Dr. Fearon asked if I would go down there and work with these older adults. Now, these were this this was about a year after the study, but they were still working with them. But she sat me down and she said this. She said, Don't baby them. So basically said, you know, work them hard.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:23:52
So when you started to do this sort of training with with older adults and I guess maybe we're talking seniors here, people at least 65 years old, what did you find? How did those older people respond to that very intense activity?
Paul Holbrook
00:24:07
Very favorably. Now, if you look at the results from that study in 1994, it was absolutely remarkable. Now, the average age of the people in this extended care facility was 87. Now they improve their strength over 110%. They improve their ability to climb stairs 28%. And then their walking speed improved, I believe, a half mile an hour. But what also happened that they weren't really looking for is they became more social. They became their social activities became more prominent. They were able to go do more things. And that was something that was really surprising to them. So again, it was just mind boggling.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:24:49
And Paul said the experience of training those older adults fundamentally reshaped the way he thinks about exercise as we age. In fact, for a moment, just think about how the exercise industry has marketed. Working out to past generations like my parents.
Jane Fonda
00:25:05
Point flex, two and flex
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:25:09
Whether it's Jane Fonda and her popular workout videos.
Jane Fonda
00:25:14
Doesn't it feel good? Oh, yeah.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:25:17
Steve Prefontaine and Nike.
Nike Ad
00:25:20
Well, it may be the 20th century and all that. But there are still people out there who run as if their life depended on it.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:25:31
There was a culture and the culture was of running aerobics classes and constant motion. Even now, in 2023, if you walk by a gym, you're likely to see a good chunk of people on the treadmill or the elliptical. And Paul says we need to pump the brakes on that a bit.
Paul Holbrook
00:25:49
I think there really needs to be a shift here on how or what we think about endurance exercise. Of course, it's important to work the heart and lungs, but we also know that high intensity interval training. Is beneficial for the heart and lungs. And if you're engaged in that, you're most likely going to be working your fast which muscle fiber. And I sometimes talk on the extremes, but it's my belief that endurance training does more harm than good when it comes to aging. I know that's a right. That's a strong statement. But sometimes when I go and do presentations, I say that to kind of get our thinking back on the other side of the of the of the pendulum.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:26:34
Paul's right. That is a strong statement. And it's basically the opposite of what Diana Nyad continues to practice into her seventies. She's all about endurance. But before we get too deep into this, I want to decode some of the exercise lingo we're talking about here. You're going to hear the term high intensity interval training or hit. This is really short but intense bursts of fast action with periods of rest in between that is different from endurance or Arabic exercises like jogging or rowing or even dancing. You do those over a longer period of time at a steady pace. There's also resistance training, using weights and bands, or even pushing against the weight of your own body to build muscle mass. Now, here's where it all comes together. As we age, you've got to think about what's really happening to your body, because those changes not only impact what kind of exercise we may want to try, but they also impact the way that we move our bodies through the world. Holbrook says There are many changes to consider.
Paul Holbrook
00:27:38
There's a lot. There's loss of balance, there's lots of bone density, there's loss of muscle. And to me, that's the fascinating part because there's two types of muscle fibers, right? Type one muscle fiber is muscle that allows us to do endurance kinds of activities, whether that's sitting for a long period of time, standing for a long period of time, walking, running marathons. The fast twitch muscle fiber is fiber we have that allows us to do quick, fast things throwing, jumping, sprinting, recovering from a stumble. That's the critical part, because as we get older, research has shown that we lose the fast twitch muscle fiber faster than the slow twitch muscle fiber. So no wonder why we move slower when we get older.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:28:34
You have a lot of people who who they do their power walks. They may go for jogs. They have what is called the steady state cardio workout compared to what is called hit training. I think I know where you stand on this, but is there is there enough to say at this point that one is better than the other as you age?
Paul Holbrook
00:28:57
Yes. There's no reason to do the long endurance work in terms of aging. There is just absolutely no reason, because studies have shown that high intensity interval training is a very effective way to exercise the heart, lungs and the endurance work, I believe, impedes with our ability to move quickly. And here's the thing working on speed work or hit training will improve endurance, but endurance work is not going to improve your speed. Here's what I'm going to get. If I do hit training or speed and power training, I'm going to get to be a faster moving person. I am going to increase my strength, by the way. So it's not like I'm going to minimize much. I am going to get stronger and I'm going to improve my balance. Now, I'm not I'm not advocating people to go out there and sprint because I it takes some training and being adaptable to that kind of training to do that. So there is more risk involved, but there's other things you can do to work fast, twitch most of fiber rather than sprinting.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:30:08
I really hope people are paying attention because I think that the idea that if you're going to create a routine for yourself that like you say, walking is okay, it doesn't seem to interfere with the fast twitch, desirable fast twitch muscles, and then making sure you're doing resistance training on whatever it is every other day or every number of days a week. But but running or jogging, you're saying, could interfere with that. So your ideal workout plan would be more walking on certain days and resistance training on other days.
Paul Holbrook
00:30:42
Yes. Yes, in a nutshell.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:30:49
You know, I got to say that one of the biggest concerns that I have for my own parents and maybe you've had this concern for either your parents or your or your clients, biggest concern is falls. And I was trying to explain this to my dad the other day, that you take 40 years of risk mitigation, you know, cholesterol lowering medications, blood pressure medications, all these things. And, you know, they can work really well If you have a fall and you're in your eighties, it's essentially like consolidating all of that risk, 40 years worth of risk into a split second or, you know, a minute. And it really worries me, Paul. And I think part of the reason I got so interested in your work is this idea that, okay, we're doing the aerobic activity to try and ward off heart disease, decreased weight, which could, you know, ward off diabetes, things like that. But if you don't have the fast twitch, if you don't have the balance, if you don't have the strength, then you're more likely to have a fall. And that's a problem.
Paul Holbrook
00:31:51
That's a real problem. So let me let me give you an example of one of our clients in relation to what you're saying about falls. We have a wonderful client named Philip, and he at the time was 87 or 88. He's been he'd been in our facility working for years, maybe seven, eight years. Very dedicated, but unstable on his feet. One day in his home, he was carrying some things up his stairs in his home, and he fell down the stairs and broke his neck. Oh, of course. Yes. And so. Right. We know what happens when somebody falls and breaks a hip or a neck or whatever at that age. He went through rehab and then I think it was nine months later, a year later, he was back in our facility working out. He still is. In fact, he's there right now working out with his trainer. He's back in the game. He's back in his home. He's peace functional. Of course, he has neck issues, but he's even getting better at that. So because he did all that training beforehand, I believe that's what really literally saved his life.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:32:56
Fast twitch versus slow twitch strength versus aerobic. If you think about it again, as Paul said, if you're doing the high intensity interval training, if you're doing the resistance exercises, you're really getting both. You're getting the strength, you're getting the motor movement and you're getting the balance. So important as we think about those falls in someone who is elderly, a fall can be deadly. So if you're going to exercise and you should think about improving the fast twitch muscle fibers, which gives you that balance and that strength to prevent those falls, as well as giving you cardiovascular benefit as well. So with all that in mind, I wanted to get some examples of relatively simple exercises that I could try at home, that you could try at home to really activate some of those fast twitch muscles that Paul's been talking about. And as you listen to these, keep in mind these can be done at any age.
Paul Holbrook
00:33:51
For example, going to some stairs and just running a step at a time, like just four of them, like one, two, three, four, and then walk back down, rest for 20 seconds, 30 and do that again, but as fast as you can safely. So just doing four quick steps. One, two, three, four back and then walk back down, rest for a little bit to recover enough to make the next set really effective real quality work and just do three or four of them. That's it.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:34:26
My parents were in their eighties, where I guarantee you are listening right now. Can they start this sort of program, do you think? I mean, is there an age where it becomes prohibitive?
Paul Holbrook
00:34:36
I don't think so. So one thing they can do, and I love this exercise, is simply sitting in a chair that has arms to it so that you can use your arms to push off on the arms of the chair and get up as quickly as you can. Well, we would think normally we would think, well, that's cheating. You can't use your arms. You. You got to use your leg strength. Hey, not really. Your body's your body. Your body works as one unit. Go ahead and get up out of that chair as fast as you can using arms, legs, anything, anything you have, and then slowly sit back down, do it again, slowly. And do just do five of them rest. Maybe do another set of five. Another thing you people can do is to get down on the floor on their back if they can, and then quickly get up from the floor. Now, be careful that you don't get dizzy when you stand up fast. So you need to test yourself and start out slowly. But getting up from the floor quickly is another great exercise.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:35:41
No one should should have a complaint about not having enough time either, because that is something I hear from people a lot. I don't have time to exercise, but this is quick what you're describing.
Paul Holbrook
00:35:50
It is, you know, we have to make time to do this. We have to make it a priority because it's that important.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:35:58
Remember, at the start of the episode when I was talking about my birthday, Myles Now, after hearing Paul say how he believes endurance training does more harm than good when it comes to aging, I started to wonder if it was something that I should keep doing.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:36:12
I got to tell you something that I do every year on my birthday, and I'm not sure if you're going to like this or not, but I. I run a mile on my birthday every year I run. I do run other times of the year as well. But part of my goal is I run fast. I run as basically as fast as I can for that mile. And I'm and I'm trying to see, am I am I getting slower or am I getting faster? And and I take great pride in the fact that over the last few years now, I've been getting faster. My times have gone down in terms of that - bad idea?
Paul Holbrook
00:36:48
That's phenomenal. That really, really is. I love it. And I kind of don't know what to say about it. You know, I'm okay. I'll go into my little my belief system here, so. Why not do one lap and see how fast you can do one lap? We're born with the ability to move quickly at an early age and in grade school, middle school, high school. We probably are doing a lot of fast, quick movements. It's just that when we hit college and we start to go into the workforce, we start doing fast movements. But it's I truly believe that if we keep those fast movements up, we won't lose the ability to do them.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:37:29
I find that deeply inspiring. And I think there's this there's this notion that's preordained, that as you get older, you're going to get significantly weaker, significantly slower, significantly slumped over, significantly imbalanced, whatever it may be. And that's not necessarily the case. You're you're an example of that. You're not old, you're 60. But I've traveled to places around the world where you do see people in their nineties, people who are centenarians and they're walking upright, they're driving. They will do intense activity. You know, it's that they show you what is possible.
Paul Holbrook
00:38:04
I think it starts there. People come in all the time and as we get older, we often talk about things that are happening to our bodies, things that are not so favorable. Arthur I've got this arthritis going. I've got shoulder pain, I've got neuropathy. And that's okay to acknowledge those things because it's important. That's what helps us make sense of the aging process. But how often do we ask ourselves, What are the possibilities? And I tell my clients this all the time. Ask yourself every day, what is the best shape you can get into it, whatever age you are, and doesn't mean you have to have an answer. But just having that curiosity is really important. What is possible?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:38:46
What is possible? That is so inspiring. And I think Paul and Diana Nyad are such great examples of that idea. They really embody it. Age and even the physical condition of your body do not have to be stop signs when it comes to accomplishing what you want to accomplish or just doing the activities you enjoy doing. I think we can all benefit from that. I know I have.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:39:11
One thing I've learned through this podcast season is this idea of adding some higher intensity as you get older.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:39:22
In fact, after I talked to Paul Holbrook, I decided to take his advice about changing up my running routine just to see what my body was willing to give me.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:39:32
So what I started doing is adding some wind sprints to the middle of my run. Not bad for a 53 year old guy, so he's got a massive hill and about to sprint up it. Reall good!
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:40:02
I've also learned that activities like exercise can be a lot more fulfilling if you get to do them with people you care about. In fact, multiple studies have found that having a workout buddy can have multiple health benefits, including increased motivation, as well as a lower risk of cognitive impairment. In fact, look, relationships in general are so important to our health, and I'm not just talking about romantic ones. So in our next episode, we're going to talk about why friendship is so important as we get older.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:40:32
How hard is it, do you think, for adults to make friends?
Marisa Franco
00:40:36
I actually think it's harder now than it's been in human history.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:40:40
You're also going to get a chance to hear from my best friend.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:40:44
And one quick note before we go. The team is going to be taking off next week for the July 4th holiday, but we'll be back with a brand new episode in two weeks. Talk to you then.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta
00:41:03
Chasing Life is a production of CNN Audio. Our podcast is produced by David Rind. Xavier Lopez and Grace Walker. Our senior producer and showrunner is Felicia Patinkin. Andrea Kane is our medical writer and Tommy Bazarian is our engineer. Dan Dzula is our technical director and the executive producer of CNN Audio is Steve Lickteig. Also, a special thanks to Ben Tinker, Amanda Sealy and Nadia Kounang of CNN Health.