Timestamps

00:00:00: Introduction 00:02:35: Three critical questions to help formulate your CV 00:03:29: The brilliant basics to writing a CV… 00:03:53: … create a PDF 00:04:34: … keep to no more than two pages 00:06:43: … list key achievements first 00:07:47: … use key words from the job description 00:08:47: … download a template 00:10:26: … photo or not photo 00:12:14: … keep your own copy when filling out a form 00:13:51: Personalise your CV to reflect the reader or the company 00:17:19: What to say in a covering letter 00:18:10: LinkedIn profile recommendations 00:21:33: Update your LinkedIn headline 00:24:46: Five checks before you hit send 00:25:32: Final thoughts

Interview Transcription

Sarah Ellis: Hi, I'm Sarah. Helen Tupper: And I'm Helen. Sarah Ellis: And this is the Squiggly Careers podcast, where every week we share ideas for action and tools to try out that we really hope will help you to navigate your Squiggly Career with a bit more confidence, clarity and control. Helen Tupper: We can't ignore your voice!  Sarah's a bit croaky, everybody.  We're recording this at the end of a relatively long day; we were together for about 8.00am prepping stuff this morning, and we've been filming and talking all day for some different videos that we create for lots of the sessions that we run.  That, combined with a bit of a cold, has Sarah a little bit croaky in this episode. Sarah Ellis: I've done that thing of having the flu jab for some very, very good reasons, and I feel like that jab has given me a tiny bit of flu, and I know none of the science behind this.  So, I'm blaming that.  Also, I'm so weedy when it comes to needles.  So, when I had this flu jab, she was like, "I'm just going to do it", and I was like, "I'm just going to look the other way".  So, I'm so proud of myself for having it, but all my family know that and they were like, "Well done, Sarah, that's really, really good". Helen Tupper: I do love you, but you are weedy with any type of illness-type thing! Sarah Ellis: But hey, you say that, but I'm still here, still recording our podcast. Helen Tupper: You are a dedicated weed. Sarah Ellis: Thanks. Helen Tupper: So, what are we talking about today? Sarah Ellis: So, today we're going to talk about how to make your job applications stand out.  So, we know that this might not be relevant for everybody right now, but we're probably all applying for a job at some point every couple of years, whether that's internally or externally.  And I always think we also always know somebody who is applying for a job.  So, even if this is not you right now, perhaps there is something that you'll hear today that you'll be able to help someone else with. Helen Tupper: And actually, because I think I haven't applied for a job for a while, because I'm running our business with you and I don't need to apply for a role; but there have been a couple of awards that I have put us forward for, for different things, which have required me to update my CV and fill in an application form.  So, I still think a lot of what we're talking about would apply for those sorts of things, if anything's putting them forward for funding, or for awards, that sort of thing. Sarah Ellis: Yeah, and I've applied for a few jobs, where they're more trustee or volunteer roles.  And also, we have recently advertised a role for Amazing If, where we got more than 200 applications, so I feel like I have read a lot of job applications over the last couple of weeks, because I've read pretty much every single one.  And Lucy, who's in our team, has read every one in lots of detail, so we did also ask her for her top tips, having spent a lot of time in this world in the last few weeks. Helen Tupper: So, we're going to go through a couple of different things in the conversation today about how to make your job application stand out.  We'll talk about CVs, we'll talk a little bit about covering letters, we'll talk a bit about LinkedIn and how that's part of it; but whatever you are required to produce as part of your application, there are three questions that you need to make sure that whoever is reading the things that you are creating and sharing is in no doubt about. Those three things are: why me; why this role; and, why this company?  I think, before you put pen to paper, which is a very retro statement, or you type out some details on a form, before you do any of that, I think it is worth just thinking that through for yourself, even if it's just five minutes and you do a bit of a mind map.  There'll be a lot of insights that you get from the why me; why this role; why this company, that you can then formalise into all the different forms that people need you to fill out. Sarah Ellis: And so, we though it was useful to start with some of the brilliant basics around your CV, because I think you don't get the chance to stand out unless you get some of these things right.  It's almost like these are the starting point and to go beyond this, you need to get these basic things in place.  So, a few things just to think about when you're creating or writing your CV and sharing it. Firstly, a really small tip, but I think it does make quite a big difference: share your CV as a PDF if you can.  I'm not sure I've always done this, but the advantage of a PDF is that you don't lose any formatting, so nothing can get wonky or lost in the virtual waves; your spacing can't go a bit strange; and you're then in control of what people see.  Don't lose the effort that you put into your CV at the last moment by sharing it in a format where it could get interpreted in a way that you didn't intend, or systems could get in the way.  You don't want to leave your CV to chance if you can avoid it. The next one, which I feel like I've always been told and really stuck to, and I don't know if this is just old-school or not, but I still very much subscribe to the "no more than two pages" rule.  So, no more than two pages of A4 on Word, and make sure you have some white space.  I have seen quite a few CVs where they are difficult to read, and maybe there's too much information in there.  CVs are read quickly.  Most people will be like us, where you've got lots of applications for a role and you're reading lots and lots of CVs, so you can't spend half an hour on a CV. I often think, "I'll read the summary, I'm looking for some key skills, I'm interested in people's experience", but you can't spend lots and lots of time interpreting.  So, just make life easy for your reader.  It's a bit like when you write anything; think of your reader and almost step back from your CV and just think, "Does this feel easy to read; does this feel like something I want to spend time with?" Helen Tupper: Well also, the reader is reading this application as part of a process, which means there's going to be more than just yours to read; but also, part of their day job, which means that they've probably got 101 emails to read as well, in addition to whatever else they're trying to do.  So, I think when somebody just looks at a really long, wordy CV, it's a bit like you feel like you've got to take a deep breath, and I don't think it really creates and impression of clarity. Lots of organisations today are looking for people who can communicate clearly and succinctly, because we've got so much information already.  They don't necessarily want someone who can't see through all of that noise, and really be specific about the points that matter. Sarah Ellis: So, as a reminder, your CV is your best bits, not a list of everything you've ever done.  I think this is really tempting to get wrong, and it's a trap that's easy to fall into, because you are proud and you've worked really hard for all of those things that you want to share with someone else.  Also, you're having to edit.  It's way easier to not edit, to just think, "Well, I'm just going to share everything in the hope that something sticks", but I can promise you, it won't. So, the way that I've often found it quite useful when I've been doing my CVs is, I always start with achievements.  What's my number one achievement that I want to share with each role?  Then, if I've got space, what might the second achievement or third achievement look like or sound like?  Usually, for my more recent roles, I might have two or three achievements.  And then going back further in my Squiggly Career, I reduce and I edit down even further.  And it doesn't mean that you can't describe your role, but I often tend to do that almost underneath the role that I've been doing in one sentence. So, if you were to summarise your role with a sentence in terms of what are your responsibilities, what would that sound like; and then one or two bullet points on what have you done.  This is your moment to shine and stand out.  It doesn't mean that you of course can't acknowledge that you're part of a team.  I think sometimes people feel a bit uncomfortable, because most of what we achieve, we achieve with other people.  But don't forget, this is your CV and your chance to share what did you do; what's the contribution that you made? Helen Tupper: So, the fourth basic is all about key words.  Key words are really the things that lots of employers are looking for.  So, if you read a job description, you can often spot the hard or the soft skills that they're really prioritising, and you really want to pick out about three.  What three hard or soft skills seem to matter most in what they've written down.  Now, the skill here is to take those three things and reflect them in your CV.  So, think about, "How can I weave that into some of those achievements that Sarah talked about?" For example, let's say one of the things they want is somebody who is a really good critical thinker.  I might give an overview of my role and say, "This role gave me the opportunity to develop my ability to think critically and identify new opportunities for the organisation".  So, I would find a way to put that key word that they're looking for into the flow of my experience.  It's a really important way of how you can personalise a CV to the things that that person is really looking to see. Sarah Ellis: And everyone listening might already know number five, but it's definitely newer for me.  There are now some really good templates that you can download for your CV for free online, and we'll include a couple of links in the podcast show notes.  Now, some of those, when I had a quick look at them, because I was like, "This is interesting, this is a newer development", we're not experts in CV writing at all, so I was doing a bit of investing for myself; some of them are quite jazzy. Helen Tupper: I love that you said "jazzy"! Sarah Ellis: I know!  But that might be right, that might feel like a really good fit for you.  I think for me, the ones that I really liked that I saw as templates were, they helped you with that keeping your CV clean and having that white space, and giving you some ideas on formatting.  I saw quite a lot of CVs when I was reviewing them which actually I've never done before, but it often read quite well, where people were using some quite smart left-hand side columns.  I don't know if you've seen these, Helen, where maybe that left-hand side column is a summary of key skills, it could be hard and soft skills; it could be professional qualifications; but some very short, at-a-glance information, rather than maybe leaving that all to the bottom, or having another extra paragraph. Again, I think those templates, even if you don't use a template, when I was clicking through the various different ones, it gave me some ideas.  So, even if I was going to create it from scratch in a Word document, slightly more old-school style, I still think looking at some of those is a good place to start and might just help you to develop your style a bit further. Helen Tupper: I have seen them and I do like them and I have a controversial question for you on a CV. Sarah Ellis: Oh, go on? Helen Tupper: What is your view on photo or no photo? Sarah Ellis: So, I think no photo, but I'm not basing that on lots of data, other than I feel like, "Why is a photo useful?"  You know we always talk about being useful a lot, and I don't want anyone to judge me based on my photo, or what I look like, or what gender I am.  And I feel like a photo shouldn't be helping someone to make a decision.  And, I've even worked in a company before where we experimented with taking names off CVs to try and make sure that we hadn't got any kind of unconscious bias as part of the process. So, I feel like photos could add in more unconscious bias, but that's not based on science, or me knowing lots about it.  But I remember seeing a few CVs with photos and actually feeling a bit uncomfortable about it, because I was just thinking, "I'm not sure quite what's happening with my brain in this moment", and I'd hate the idea that I'm making a judgement based on that.  But I saw lots of templates with photos on, so people are obviously using them, and I saw CVs with photos as well.  What do you think? Helen Tupper: I'm with you, I wouldn't want to consciously feed into a bias, because for me it just makes me feel quite uncomfortable about the process; and I can understand why a lot of people do blind recruiting to get rid of some of the biases that come into it.  And I wouldn't want to rule myself out, because I've suddenly put a picture in and someone was like, "Oh, we now can't have Helen because she's put her photo in and she's biased the process". I also think, do you know what, if someone really wants to find your photo, it's not that hard to find you on LinkedIn, which is something we're going to talk about.  So, the choice is there if someone wants to click onto it, but I would rather make sure that what they were making a decision on was the words that I had written and how I'd put myself across. The only other thing I would say on CVs actually, is we talked about it in part of the process where you've got quite a lot of control, so you can create the CV, you can send it as a PDF.  There are definitely situations where people will ask you to fill in a form, so the same sort of contents as there will be on your CV, but they'll want you to cut and paste it into a form. What I would recommend is that any time there's a form-filling, like an online thing, just make sure you are cutting and pasting the copy into a document that you can refer back to, because I know a lot of people would type it out from scratch when they're filling out those boxes.  But then you click send, and most of the time you can't remember what you sent. So, if you do have an interview, you might be thinking, "What did I say; what did I not say?"  So, I would always just have one document where you can read it all in one place and move it across from that one document into the form you're filling online so that you've got a record of it. Sarah Ellis: Also, that helps you to both spellcheck, but also I would often get somebody else to read that for me, just someone with a bit of distance who can check that things make sense, they can spot things that you just can't see for yourself.  Even when you read things three times, it is amazing how someone different can just read it, reading it for the first time, and can spot you repeated a word that for whatever reason somehow, your spellcheck, it's not got underlined in red.  So, I think that's the other advantage of doing that. So to summarise with your CV, what are you aiming for?  You're aiming for, I think, ease; easy to read, easy to understand and easy to pick out the best bits. Helen Tupper: So now we've done the basics, we're going to go beyond the basics, and we want you to think about what will really impress the person that is reading your application, your CV.  The easiest way to do this is, put yourself into the shoes of either the person who might be reading it, or the company, so think a little bit about the culture. To give you an example of this, we had quite a lot of people who were applying for the job that we're recruiting for who described their career as Squiggly.  So, what they had taken there is a word that is part of something we say every day, it's part of our mission to make Squiggly Careers better for everybody, and they'd reflected that in their application, which made us feel like they knew what we did and what was important to us, and they'd taken the time to personalise their application so it was reflected in the words. You can do that most easily at the top of your CV, because you really don't want the personalisation to get lost.  So, you can do that key-word thing that we mentioned throughout, but those things that are personal about why this is the right role for you, the sense of connection that you might have with the company or the culture, I think that stuff can really stand out in that top paragraph of your CV. Sarah Ellis: And if you've got an opportunity to share a covering letter, this is a great place to really show why this role, why you and why the company, to be really explicit about answering those questions, and even to point people to how you've really tried to understand what they're looking for and what matters to them as an organisation. So, we had a few people applying for the role, for example, who had been on our website, been to our free toolkit and had completed some of the templates.  We've got a "more about me" values template on there, or some of the other free tools, and they shared that with us and they shared some of their reflections.  I also really loved a couple of people who applied for the role were prepared to be critical, but in a really positive way.  So, they'd taken the time to think about, "What would some 'even better ifs' be", maybe on our website; or, even if they'd listen to the podcast, on our podcast; or to suggest some podcast episode topics.  And it's just those moments of when you are reading a job application, I think that really made people stand out, because I felt that they really cared and they were really committed. People weren't making things up.  There was one application that I really remember where she said, "I've never listened to your podcast.  I've discovered it and I realise I'm 300 episodes behind!"  That actually made me smile, and then she talked about the research that she had done.  So, I don't think you have to pretend here to be anything that you're not.  I didn't mind whether people had heard of Amazing If or Squiggly Careers when I was reading people's job applications, but I did care about, "Had they taken a bit of time to research who we were, what our values are; what might be important for us when we're thinking about this role?"  I think you could really see that extra effort shine through in people's job applications. It's a bit like James Whatley, who's a brilliant speaker, does lots of work in technology, and he actually contributed to our first book, The Squiggly Career, with his best piece of career advice.  And I really remember that his advice is, "Go the extra click", and basically his point is, that extra click or that extra bit of effort and intention will take you a long way, and I think that is true with job applications.  If you just spend that extra 10, 15 minutes, that can be the difference between an interview and not getting an interview. Helen Tupper: I think some simple ways to connect the dots between you and a company in a covering letter are values, that Sarah mentioned, so sometimes you might be able to research the values and then reflect that in some of the things that you might say in that covering letter; maybe news, have they released any new products, or is there anything particularly interesting that's happening in the market that would be a good way to connect the dots like, "I know that this is a change that I'm really excited about", that sort of thing; or, if you do know anything about any of the people that are involved in the process, without wanting to stalk people, because that can go a bit too far at this stage.  It might be worth seeing what they've been sharing on LinkedIn, for example, or maybe they write. So for example, for Sarah and me, it's quite open, you can often see we've written certain articles for Harvard Business Review.  And so, knowing that, you might be able to reflect that again in some of the things that you found really interesting or inspiring, and you can bring that into your covering letter too. Sarah Ellis: The next area we wanted to spend some time talking about is your LinkedIn profile.  I think you have to assume that somebody recruiting for a role will look at your LinkedIn profile.  So, it's really important just to make sure that again, you've done the brilliant basics; is it up to date; make sure it doesn't contradict your CV; and again, maybe make sure you've written your summary.  I think that summary could be the same as your CV, or you might want to add a bit of extra personality onto your LinkedIn, because I feel that is more a profile about who you are and what matters to you. The one secret, I call it a secret idea for action because so few people do it, and I so I think when something isn't done very often, it is a really easy way to stand out, is that hardly anyone has recommendations on their LinkedIn profile.  Now, maybe that's because we still feel a bit nervous about asking for recommendations when we're currently in roles; but I think you can get around that by collecting recommendations as you go, and not making it feel like, "I need a recommendation, because I'm clearly applying for another job".  So, almost the sooner that you start to do this, the better. If you don't have any, never be afraid to go back to previous colleagues that you've worked with.  I don't think people will be offended that you're reconnecting.  I think often, people are just happy to help.  And again, hedge your bets, ask more than one person.  Think about, "Who are five colleagues I've worked with so far in my career?" and figure out, "Who are the ones who I think are most likely to help me out, do me a bit of a five-minute favour?" and just ask them for a LinkedIn recommendation. You might even want to go a bit further than that, especially if you've not spoken to someone for a while.  I think I might even email somebody, if I'd still got their email address, and just say, "Helen, we've not been in touch for a while, it's been on my mind for ages to sort out my LinkedIn profile", and everyone will be like, "Yeah, I've been meaning to do that for ages".  It's a bit like sorting your CV, isn't it?  You all think, "We should do this as we go", and then we never do.  So, everyone will get it, and then just say, "I'd really appreciate it if you could just write a couple of sentences for me for my LinkedIn profile". The profiles that I see where people have asked for recommendations, I think what's so nice about it is, when you read what a peer or a previous manager of mentor has written about someone, I just think you get a real feel for who someone is, because they're always people that you know quite well, and so it's always really just nice.  I feel I get to know that person much better, and I also get the sense that they care about their career, because they have made the effort to go and get those recommendations. So, even if you don't do the recommendations, which I do think is a bit of a secret way to make your job application stand out, just make sure all the rest of your LinkedIn makes sense, no typos, get someone else to review it for you.  If I was thinking about applying for a role, I would probably send my LinkedIn profile to a couple of work best friends, past and present, and just say, "Could you have a scan of this profile?  Just let me know if there's anything you spot that doesn't make sense, any typos, or any advice for how I could make it even better".  Again, maybe you could even do a bit of a LinkedIn profile swap, so you might be like, "I'll review yours if you review mine", and I suspect that would be something that lots of people would find helpful. Helen Tupper: I think of it like a LinkedIn look-over.  And it's just part of building your brand, as well as applying for roles.  I would say as well, with Linked In, one of the most powerful parts of LinkedIn is your headline, so where it is your job title.  Now caveat, I think as soon as you start significantly playing around with that headline, it's like a red flag that you're trying to do something quite intentional, so you're looking for a role! But for example, you could just be, "Helen Tupper, Project Manager at [whatever company]", so it literally says the job that I do.  But lots of people might say, "Helen Tupper, Project Manager with a passion for improving things"; probably don't say "things"!  But, "With a passion for improvement", or whatever it would be; or, "A passion for people" or, "Purpose-driven leader on a mission to make work better for everyone", or something like that.  So again, this has got to feel natural; you don't want it to feel forced or false. But I do think it's one of the first things that people will see, that very first headline, and you can play around with it so it feels like you and it does stand out.  But I do think it depends on how open you are about this particular process, because if you're going from very low engagement to LinkedIn to a new profile picture and a new headline and a brand-new profile, people might think, "Interesting, Helen, looking to move on from Amazing If then, clearly?"  So, just be aware of the impression that that creates too. Sarah Ellis: You can also, in your settings in LinkedIn, because I've definitely changed this, I don't want to make an announcement almost every time I'm making a tweak to my LinkedIn profile, because I'll often add a sentence into my summary, or I might think I'd forgotten to add on that professional certificate I've done, or something.  So, you can turn off the settings in your profile, so that it shares that with everyone that you're connected with, and I think most people do have that turned off now. But you might just want to go in and just check that, because then it just means that you can play around with your profile, no one suddenly gets a flashing light that goes, "Sarah's looking for a role", and I think it just gives you that space to get it to the point that you feel happy with it. Helen Tupper: And, if you want any more tips and tricks on how to use LinkedIn, a while ago now, over two years, we did an episode with Rachel Glynn from LinkedIn, about just things about your profile and some of your settings and the stuff that Sarah has talked about there; it might be worth a listen.  LinkedIn's only part of the answer when you're applying, but it is quite an important part now, you definitely want to make it as impactful as possible, so there'll be some extra tips there. Sarah Ellis: While I suspect different industries use LinkedIn in a different way, and I'm sure it's more important for some than others, personally I've found when I'm reviewing job applications, or just talking to people and having curious career conversations, it's not the first thing that I would look at.  I would look at someone's application, I'd look at the answers to questions, I'd look at their CV; but if I'm starting to feel impressed, if I'm starting to feel intrigued and interested, that's when I then go to LinkedIn. So, I suspect unless you are a recruiter, where I guess sometimes recruiters go straight to LinkedIn, for me it's almost when I'm starting to make some distinction between, "Well, I've got five brilliant people here, but I've only got three people I can interview", how do I start to spot who really stands out?  Then I might start to look at LinkedIn and that would then inform my decision. Helen Tupper: So, just five things to remember.  Before you hit send, here are five things that you really want to work your way through, and we'll put a bit of a summary on this on social, on LinkedIn and Instagram, so you've got all the details. First one, typos, make sure that you haven't got anything that's going to let you down.  Second, jargon; just be aware that the company that you're in now probably has some words and phrases that are meaningful for you, but meaningless to most other people, so get rid of the jargon.  Key words, that point we mentioned, weave those in, because it definitely is some of the stuff that people are looking to see.  Personalise it wherever possible, do not just send out generic CVs, it's really, really obvious.  And just think about consistency, so if people are looking at your CV and your covering letter and LinkedIn, you want dates and the kind of feel that you're creating to be consistent across those different places. Sarah Ellis: So, that's everything for this week.  We hope if you are applying for a role at the moment, it has felt useful.  Let us know what else you'd add to the list, or how else we can help, we always love to hear from you.  We're helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com. Helen Tupper: I'd also be really interested, if anyone is going through an application process and something different is happening, maybe they've got you to do something slightly random, or fill in a form you've never seen before, please let us know, because we try to stay aware as possible with what's going on in many different areas of work, so that we can help people with their careers.  But if there is something that you have gone through, a particular point or process, let us know so that we can make sure that people have got support and they feel as prepared as possible. Sarah Ellis: So, thank you so much for listening, we're back with you again soon.  Bye for now. Helen Tupper: Bye everyone.